Hiding In Plain Sight

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Andy is going to claim his false statutory rape allegations / phone sex / "sex worker" lies are due to his meds not working in the next little while. Calling it now.

Anonymous

Who knows? Depends on his reasons, I guess. Somewhere down the line there’ll be an excuse, though, and another change-and-begin-again.

Submission

“For that matter, if Andy was half as interested in social justice/anti-rape activism as he claims to be, you might think he’d take action to get a statutory rapist/online groomer off the street and registered as a sex offender. But no, he “doesn’t fucking care” about that. In fact, he cares so little that he can’t even be bothered to confirm whether he might have that power or not. So either he’s KNOWINGLY lying, or he’s happy as a clam to let a supposed rapist walk free. Both are disgusting.”

Um, no, this is a disgusting thing to say and is yet one more example of how people let their emotions about Andy cloud their judgement as it relates to broader issues.

Many, MANY, MANY people who care about anti-rape activism and social justice issues do not “take action” to have THEIR OWN rapists put behind bars or charged. The reason is that they are already traumatised and the legal process is even more traumatising not to mention HIGHLY unlikely to result in their favour. Rapists and child-molestors literally walk away scot-free after trials their victims have persued at enormous personal cost by the dozens every single day because we live in a rape culture and the tendency is to blame the victim and/or disbelieve them.

As a consequence of this horrible process, many many victims choose not to take legal action and instead try to move on and rebuild their lives in other ways.

I don’t care about Andy. I don’t believe he is a victim. I DO care about the thousands of rape survivors around the world remarks like these summarily chuck under the bus because they chose to prioritise their own health and recovery and not submit themselves to the trauma of a trial.  Saying victims who don’t persue charges are “happily” letting rapists walk free is truly disgusting and whoever said that should be ashamed and this blog should be ashamed at supporting it. I can only presume you cannot comprehend the experience and the associated social baggage or you would never presume such moral superiority over how victims choose to act in the aftermath.

_______________

Notes added by 1purp0se:  You’re right, and I apologise for publishing it.

I understood the remark in the context of this conversation about Andy, but really, thinking about it now even in that context, it’s not an acceptable thing to say, or to publish, or to endorse.  I’m sorry.  I’ll be more careful in future.  The ask is now deleted.

By the way, I published, then deleted this submission because it wouldn’t let me edit my comments and I wanted to.  That’s why your name doesn’t show up.  And thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Apr 9

Was Andy a sex worker during the time you knew him? I ask, because a few of his recent posts have alluded to the fact he was a porn model and phone sex operator circa age 20. Which... I would think would get a lot more air time in his narrative, if that were the case.

Anonymous

kumquatwriter:

Fine Andy, you want to take it there, take it there. No, he was not a “sex worker” and he was not a phone sex operator. Ever. On one single afternoon, for two hours, he did one modeling session. I will freely admit I don’t know what exactly happened in that two hour afternoon. I know that he never bothered to inflate it into a drama or make a big deal. He was extremely matter of fact about it, said there was a little nudity but nothing much, and moved on. It was definitely not “hardcore porn” nor was it with any other people.

Yes, I am fully aware that this could scar someone, or be traumatic. I do not mean to undermine anyone who experienced such pain. However, the event was minor, one time, and never came up again. He didn’t even rub it in my face that he had to do it. It was a business transaction, as far as he ever treated it. And I have never said a word about it to anyone until this post.

We were very poor in Hollywood, and he made $100. I know that, because it paid for our rent and dinner (our motel was $85 nightly). He did try to push *me* into sex work, specifically modeling and stripping. But he’d invariably sigh and say that I was either too fat, or that my loose skin from losing so much weight would mean I could “only do freaky fetish shows.” Him doing sex work never came up aside from the incident above.

He NEVER had ANY kind of phone sex (or ANY phone related) jobs. The closest was him working as a commissioned salesman for VeriPhone, a credit card reader company. That was for about 3 weeks and we made no money. Andy claimed he was scammed by the guy he’d been signed up by. Maybe true, maybe not, but thats the closest to a phone he ever got. Hell, we didn’t HAVE phones, ffs. All we did was take pictures for tips in costumes.

Rule of thumb: if Andy claims something out of nowhere that is dramatic, traumatic, scandalous and salacious…it’s almost guaranteed to be a lie, or at best a vast exaggeration.

Apr 9

"and say that I was either too fat, or that my loose skin from losing so much weight " Well. I always knew there'd come some precise point when I couldn't find Andy amusing any more, and it turns out this is it. I am so, so sorry you had to endure that, and also sorry that he's chosen to re-invent himself as a paragon of compassion and acceptance; it's a pretty sickening pose, from someone who could say that stuff to their partner. ~Necromommycon

Anonymous

kumquatwriter:

Thanks. Hope you’re doing well.

I haven’t even talked about the whole loose skin stuff. It’s hideous and I still tend to hide it, even as public as I am. Ashamed and embarrassed, that I let him say/do what I did, and not wanting the images I’d have to describe out there. Suffice to say he got great amusement out of my skin once I lost substantial weight and had some (nonsexual) “games” he played.

Apr 7

The Andypology: A Reader’s Guide - Sahnin’s additions

Reblogging sahnin’s additions to my commentary on the Andypology.  Well worth a click through to the Read More.

sahnin:

And my own take on this.  God I swear pulling apart these sorts of things is strangely cathartic.  

Read More

(Source: 1purp0se)

Apr 7

The Andypology: A Reader’s Guide - Abbey’s additions

Reblogging Abbey’s additions to my post on the Andypology.

kumquatwriter:

Well done! I lolled at the James Bond reference.  (Thanks!)

Now then. No, he’s still nor apologized to me. What would that entail to be a legitimate apology?

1) He has to say who he’s apologizing to. Not “them” and “they” and “the person.” I have a name. He knows it. So does everyone reading this.

2) He has to say what he did wrong. Not vagaries. “I am sorry I lied to you.” And “I am sorry I lied ABOUT you,” is a start. There’s also, “I am sorry I convinced you to flee the country.” “I am sorry I turned you against your mother, your friends, your family. ” “I am sorry I told lies about you. ” It’s a long ass list, he could start anywhere. Owning his actions.

3) He has to accept his responsibility. “But mental illness” is bullshit sidestepping. Many, many people with a variety of mental illnesses somehow are able to say “I did something wrong and I am sorry,” without a wall of text excusing and dodging and reframing. I have mental illnesses. I can admit when I lie - something I stopped doing as part of my own therapy. I can apologize for bad behavior without excusing myself that I’m too sick.

4) He has to correct the lies. At the bare minimum, retract his claims that we secretly met 2 years before the record shows and that he was 18 when we met. This is non negotiable. All of his “but it’s all a blur!” Is a crock of Bullshit. If he’s so well treated, he has people he can trust to confirm/refute his “unreliable” memory. He baldface, repeatedly lied.

Until he recants the lie, clearly and publicly, without frills and evasions, he has not apologized for anything. At all.

I don’t expect any of this will happen.

He’d like to frame it that I couldn’t ever forgive him anyway. I don’t know if I could - but I never thought I’d forgive Jeanine, or Bob, or Diamond, or my Father - all people I felt both that I had wronged and had wronged me beyond repair.

But ain’t nothing forgiven if you can’t actually apologize.

(Source: 1purp0se)

Apr 7
I wanted to redact the url here.
I totally agree that it’s really frustrating to see people act as if criticism of Andy is just some kind of malicious gossip mongering.  It’s not.  Criticism is levelled at Andy because he’s still dangerous as a manipulator, narcissist and cult-builder.  That’s not idle gossip, that’s based on reading the things he says and noting that he has not changed, though he claims he has.
But it’s also not surprising that some people would rather ignore all that.  Some people seem to love DAYD.  Some people like the sense of community and cameraderie that being in Andy’s “fandom” brings them.  And so they’ll reject the criticism of him because accepting it means losing something they enjoy.
The important thing, if you know these people, is just to make sure they’re not getting too close for their own safety.  It’s true that their protection of Andy does him and those close to him no good; in fact, it may be damaging for him over time, if he does suffer from NPD, or at the very least it impedes him ever coming to terms with the disorder.  (People say that people with NPD can’t change; this is not entirely true - they can realise they have a disorder and work with it, if the right circumstances for that realisation occur.)  But the worst thing to do is to criticise them publicly, thereby driving them closer to Andy.  This is why I redacted the url.
So I get the frustration, anon, but it’s better just to make sure the person is informed—even if they reject the information—so that if they ever do see or experience something they’re not comfortable with, they know where to go to learn more.

I wanted to redact the url here.

I totally agree that it’s really frustrating to see people act as if criticism of Andy is just some kind of malicious gossip mongering.  It’s not.  Criticism is levelled at Andy because he’s still dangerous as a manipulator, narcissist and cult-builder.  That’s not idle gossip, that’s based on reading the things he says and noting that he has not changed, though he claims he has.

But it’s also not surprising that some people would rather ignore all that.  Some people seem to love DAYD.  Some people like the sense of community and cameraderie that being in Andy’s “fandom” brings them.  And so they’ll reject the criticism of him because accepting it means losing something they enjoy.

The important thing, if you know these people, is just to make sure they’re not getting too close for their own safety.  It’s true that their protection of Andy does him and those close to him no good; in fact, it may be damaging for him over time, if he does suffer from NPD, or at the very least it impedes him ever coming to terms with the disorder.  (People say that people with NPD can’t change; this is not entirely true - they can realise they have a disorder and work with it, if the right circumstances for that realisation occur.)  But the worst thing to do is to criticise them publicly, thereby driving them closer to Andy.  This is why I redacted the url.

So I get the frustration, anon, but it’s better just to make sure the person is informed—even if they reject the information—so that if they ever do see or experience something they’re not comfortable with, they know where to go to learn more.

Apr 7

I wasn't sure the best way to do this but I just wanted to thank all the people out there who have been providing evidence to disprove Andy's lie about when he met Abbey. It's really heartening to see so many good people working together to provide evidence from all these different sources as a way of fighting on her behalf. I'm glad she's received so much support over this issue. Well done random internet strangers!

Anonymous

I totally agree, it was pretty great to see they way people rallied around her.  As people will do when they can sense that someone is genuine, truthful, and honest about themselves and their past.  No handwaving, no secrets, just real support and real proof.  Definitely great to see.

Apr 7

Does andy really an Irish? As someone who born there I was extremely ashame to read thing about him. I enjoyed his blog sometimes ago but now some of his posts really give me the creep.

Anonymous

Why don’t you ask Andy?  I suspect that might be easy for you.

Apr 7

Do you think Thanfiction's recent claims to have been a sex worker are a repeat of the thing where he used to claim to have been sexually abused? He seems to consistently go for high-drama claims.

Anonymous

I want to start this answer by saying that I don’t know if those claims are true or not.  They may be.

The question you ask is a good one, though, insofar as the important thing is, why is he mentioning it now?

Most obviously, because he wanted to position himself as an expert in order to reject anything that might be considered cricitism.  If you read over any asks that confront him with things he’s said that some people find problematic, this is his standard MO.

But as I was reading through the Amy Player apology, I came across the line I quoted in my commentary on the Andypology: “I created an identity who was horribly scarred, sick, messed up, and dirty, with a terrible sexually deviant past… but it wasn’t her fault, of course.”  It’s not the first time he’s claimed some sexual “deviance”* in his past.  No doubt he has his reasons this time around as well.

* With all respect to sex workers.  I don’t mean to shame sex work or sex workers here, merely to point out how Andy may be using the idea of sex work to creat a sexually “scandalous” past for himself, as he has done before.

Apr 7

Ah, sorry, I sorted out the anon meme link (same submitter as the previous ask) regarding Andy's online porn career (?!): lol-meme(.)dreamwidth(.)org/529416(.)html?thread=1278481928#cmt1278481928

Anonymous

Link

Anon, I didn’t get the first part of your ask, I only got this part, so please re-send if you want to.

That post of Andy’s quoted at the beginning of the thread is ironic in terms of Andy’s own claims to expertise, but it may also be related to the advice Abbey is getting from anons to sue him.  This could be a way of trying to undermine those anons to his own followers, laying down the basis for the argument that those anons can have no legal expertise and no basis upon which to argue that he should be sued.

Apr 6

The Andypology: A Reader’s Guide

So Andy posted an apology.  Let’s call it the Andypology for ease of reference.  This Andypology sounds good, no doubt about it.  It even sounds almost genuine.  Almost.

The main (but by no means only) problem with this apology is that at no point does he actually apologise for the allegation he made, or retract the false claim that he was 17 when his sexual relationship with Abbey began.  There is ample proof from Andy himself that the allegation is false, as well as timelines and his date of birth which have long been on public record.  He refuses to acknowlege this clarity and he acts like he’s conceding that others might be right, though he can’t swear to it.

One thing to bear in mind when reading is that the Andypology has a number of audiences. 

  1. Abbey.  This is a response to her invitation to apologise.
  2. Andy’s followers.  This is further proof to those already convinced that Andy has changed.  From now on, if anyone claims that Andy has never accepted culpability or apologised for his actions in the past, Andy’s followers can point to this.  He did apologise, they can say.  You just refuse to believe him because you have it in for him.  You’re twisting his words.  You refuse to give him a chance.  It’s also because of his followers that he must continue to pretend that he’s not sure if he was 17 or 18 when he met Abbey.  If he were to acknowledge the truth now, they might start wondering if he’s lied to them, and he can’t have that.
  3. Everyone else.  Everyone who has ever pointed out that Andy has never apologised to his most well-known victim.  Here it is.  Has he apologised to Abbey?  It certainly looks like it.  It’s in the title of this post, even.  “Not me, not in my name, and I’m sorry.”  Sorry for what?, is the question we should be asking.
  4. And that subgroup of “everyone else” that sees through the continued bullshit.  The people who refuse to take this apology at face value and who are now going to become further entrenched as the Them to Andy’s Us.  We know how he loves to create Us v Them scenarios to keep his followers close.  And now, by posting about his apology and showing how it is not genuine, we at this blog once more become the big mean Them out to get Andy.

We acknowledge that role we play in Andy’s Us v Them.  But the only way to avoid playing any role is not to comment at all, and given the stakes, we’re not willing to do that

I also want to draw attention to the fact that, when an anon asks Andy about how to go about apologising, the first thing he mentions is the “wording”.  Not how you feel about it.  Not how you hurt others.  But the wording, how it will come across, and how to avoid legal ramifications.  Not one shred of consideration for remorse, shame, guilt, emotion.  Very revealing.

So with all that in mind, let’s take a closer look and see what the Andypology is really doing, and more importantly, what—if anything—it’s really apologising for.

Read More

Here's the thingy about his diagnosis: andythanfiction(.)tumblr(.)com/post/66797026122/you-say-you-didnt-get-diagnosed-and-treated-for-your

Anonymous

Link

Yes, but that was posted four months ago.  Is there anything from the time of the supposed actual diagnosis?

I’m looking for this just because we had an ask about it and it raised questions.  It’s not a huge issue, but it’s an interesting one.  Maybe it’s one to leave on the backburner for a while.

Though in that post, note the subtle shift of blame to others when he mentions, in parentheses, that his own mental illness was made worse by the people who believed him.  His life was made worse by his victims, is essentially what he’s saying there.

Let’s bear in mind that this is from someone who says of himself “I am a weaver of word-magic to a degree that verges on dangerous in my understanding of exactly what I’m doing as a storyteller and rhetorician”.

Best proof of all might be this list of entries/survery, linked from Andy's VB LJ as "Edits I Missed": www(.)angelfire(.)com/ex/seether128/LJStuff(.)txt It runs through dating Adrian the Aussie, cheating with/dating Versaphile, then breaking up with her. At the bottom, you will see an entry that claims he has met only one person from his Flist more than once in person, has one LJ ex, has never been to an LJ friend's house, but soon that will change (when he meets Abbey in June).

Anonymous

The ex/one person he’s met more than once is obviously Pam/Versaphile, whom he discusses as the first woman he slept with at length. That last entry is dated May 18, 2002, and the earliest entry is Friday, March 22nd, 2002. THIS DOCUMENT EXISTS ON THE WAYBACK MACHINE IN 2004, when Abbey and he were still together, and she would not have been able to alter that. This is definitive proof (as Amy Player names herself in the doc) that Andy is lying about being 17 when he met Abbey.

Interestingly, it also proves that Andy has a long history of lying about his age. Aside from the July 26/30(31?) brouhaha, in this document claims he was born in 1980, which would have made him 21 (were it true) at the time this was written. Versaphile was on his friend’s list then, as the last entry confirms. He may very well have CONTINUED to lie to Pam about his age all the way through their brief relationship. Who’s fucking with informed consent re: age/power in relationships, again?

Link

So then he was claiming to be older than he was, and now it’s possible he’s claiming to people that he’s younger than he is.  His own journal entries a) prove this current claim is a lie and b) prove he has a history of lying about his age.

Again, repeating patterns.

Thanks for this link.  Very interesting, for lots of reasons.  Definitely one to keep on file.

Ugh, I should probably just shut up and let the discussion die a natural death, but today I was looking at my facebook inbox, and I have a message from Andy referencing himself being 17 when he met Abbey. The message is dated 15/11/2011. I realize this doesn't prove it's true (and fwiw I personally think he's either mistaken/misremembering or deliberately lying), but it does suggest it's, if a lie, at least an OLD lie. (sending this ask to both ceirdwenfc and Abbey). ~Necromommycon

Anonymous

kumquatwriter:

It doesn’t make it any less a lie that he said it earlier. The history is documented by outside sources. We met online when he was 18, in person when he was 19. This is not a matter of he said she said. These actually are facts.

I haven’t even been particularly active on tumblr or my blog recently. I think (note for reading comprehension: think implies a personal opinion) there are three main reasons Andy is suddenly creating (and then letting his friends go fight the battles for him) all this drama.

1) He needs to deflect attention away from himself. This is a pretty risky move, given how very thoroughly, publicly documented our early relationship is. That leads me to believe something in his plans is going awry - perhaps someone losing faith, or a storyline he’s created is crashing. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

2) He needs to undermine my credibility and character. If he can make me the bad guy, he can be the good guy. He’s operating online, so he can’t ignore me like he could ignore Turimel while we were in Hollywood. He also can’t discredit me as easily as Turimel, because I’m *not* following him or reporting on his activities - I write my own past experiences and I respond to questions - which keep being asked.

Further, I’m not motivated by revenge like she was - much as he tries to spin it that way. I’m a writer; I write about my life. I write about my passions. I write about lying liars who lie (such as my blogs about <a href=https://kumquatwriter.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/munchausen-by-internet-the-case-of-mike-feigen/>Mike Feigen</a> and <a href=https://kumquatwriter.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/christy-collins-rewrites-history/hristy Collins</a. I openly say how much fun Andy can be, and correct misinformation I encounter.

3) He needs to hurt me. This whole incident reminds me of the notorious “Apology” that Andy wrote while I was in Manhattan with my mother. I believe he’s trying to take me down emotionally, even punish me. And I suspect it’s retaliation for me publicly giving him permission to speak to me in order to apologize, should he actually want to. That is a gaping hole in his persistent “I’ve apologized to anyone who didn’t tell me never to speak to them again " story. Which I did say, in our final phone conversation. Threads of truth in the weave.

I’m sure he has not forgotten how deeply it hurt me when Turimel accused us of questionable behavior with Little Sam (an actual minor). It was one of the only strikes Turimel made that got the kind of emotional payout she was looking for. I was enraged, heartsick and devastated by that accusation. It doesn’t really surprise me that he’s using the same move that worked so well for her.

It didn’t work for her (beyond hurting me) because it was a lie. Little Sam herself spoke up in our defense, because the truth is important in the face of such ugly, unethical, untrue allegations. And it isn’t working now (and failed to hurt me) because it’s a lie. Many, many people have spoken up in my defense, because the truth is important in the face of such ugly, unethical, untrue allegations.